Episode Notes:
In this episode, we journey to Tunis to speak with Farah Mami, philanthropist, impact investor, and social entrepreneur committed to leading with heart, integrity, and deep cultural pride. Rooted in both Tunisia and France, Farah moves between worlds—geographically, spiritually, and professionally. She shares a powerful story of reclaiming authenticity, navigating the tensions of belonging, and redefining leadership on her own terms. As the chair of the Tunisia chapter of the Young President’s Organization (YPO) and a global advocate for women in business, she’s reshaping what leadership can look like when it’s grounded in care, equity, and spiritual alignment. Farah’s work aims to foster personal growth and community well-being. In this conversation she also reflects on the role of love as both anchor and fuel.
Episode Transcript:
Darren Isom:
Welcome to Dreaming in Color, a space for social change leaders of color to reflect on how their unique life experiences, personal and professional, have prepared them to lead and drive the impact we all seek. I'm your host, Darren Isom.
This season, we're traveling to the continent to highlight African leaders and the continent's role as a key driver of global innovation and leadership. So, join us as we travel across the continent, from South Africa to Tunisia, with stops in Kenya, Ethiopia, Nigeria, and Senegal along the way, celebrating the diaspora and all of its complexity and beautiful possibility. This is Dreaming in Color: Africa.
Today I'm in Carthage, Tunisia to talk with Farah Mami. Farah's an entrepreneur, impact investor, and philanthropist known for her trailblazing leadership and commitment to transformational change. As chair of YPO Tunisia and a board member across multiple organizations, she champions transparency, gender equity, and sustainability. Her work spans circular economy investments, cross-sector ventures, and the empowerment of women in leadership. Through her ventures in philanthropic work, Farah mentors rising talent and supports initiatives that foster well-being and personal growth. As a champion of gender equity, Farah chairs business associations and advocates globally for women's empowerment. She bridges education and enterprise, investing in solutions that cultivate human potential and collective progress. Farah exemplifies how visionary leadership can transform industries, empower communities, and build a more just, inclusive future. Farah, bienvenue à Dreaming in Color.
Farah, here we are. Thank you once again for hosting us here in your beautiful home. It's great to chat with you today. I'm sure it's going to be a fun conversation. As you know, we start the conversation handing you the floor. So, how are you going to open us up? What's your invocation for us?
Farah Mami:
Well, thank you for coming.
Darren Isom:
Of course.
Farah Mami:
First of all, I'm really happy to host you, and I'm really happy to be on your podcast. And the invocation I will honor today is from Ibn Khaldun and it goes like this, [Speaks Arabic]. Which means, "Injustice brings about the ruin of civilization."
Darren Isom:
Yeah, civilizations, justice, all themes that are extremely important right now, and so great way to open up the conversation. Let's jump in.
So, I wanted to start just from the source. You have a very unique personal story that begins on many continents, or goes across many continents, having spent time both in Tunisia, Paris, UK, and Canada. I would love to start by going back to the very beginning, and can you tell us more about your background, of where you grew up and how did your early experiences in this community shape who you are, and who you are as a leader and as a person?
Farah Mami:
Sure. I'm born in Paris. And I grew up a few of my beginning years there. And very early on, and then we moved back to Tunis, because my father was living between Tunis and France. He left when he was 17 to France, so that's where he started his career and built his business, and then he wanted us to go back to Tunis when we were four or five years old because he wanted us to have a clear identity. At the time, France, and even at some point today, has still a very big challenge to, I would say, assimilate. I don't really like this word, but accept cultural diversity, and actually embrace it as part of its nation. So, we are French, but also Tunisian, because he really wanted us to have that print of Tunisia as our roots, so we came back here. And I grew up in Tunis. Actually, my childhood house is two blocks away from here.
Darren Isom:
A few houses over? Goodness.
Farah Mami:
So, Carthage is where I grew up. And very early on, I had this justice, I would say, calling. I was seven years old, I remember, I had a name tag, was written on it, "Cindy Crawford, lawyer."
Darren Isom:
Oh, wow. You were starting off as trouble. Yeah, I love it. Yeah.
Farah Mami:
So, I wanted to be like a top model, but also I wanted to bring justice and be a lawyer.
Darren Isom:
And those two things can't exist at the same time, so glad you had that calling.
Farah Mami:
Yeah. It's difficult, actually. I had a really hard time making sense, as those two things can't go in the same time as an adult.
Darren Isom:
Yeah.
Farah Mami:
Because society tends to differentiate those two things, especially for women.
Darren Isom:
Yeah, of course. And I want to jump in there because as someone who's spent time in Paris, and when I first studied in Paris many years ago, I think it was very, very jarring for me, in a good way. You move to different places and you learn. Coming from the States, where this idea of multiculturalism made sense, you had these different cultures, different ways of seeing things, and you get to France and there's no multiculturalism. There is a French way of doing things, a French way of speaking, a French way of eating. And I joke all the time that one of the differences between French colonialism and English colonialism, in English colonialism, it was, "You can behave however you like, as long as you think the same." And French colonialism, "You can think however you like, as long as you behave the same." Right? And so I would love to hear you trying to think about accepting this new culture, understanding this new culture, but also holding onto a space for your Tunisian identity.
Farah Mami:
Yeah.
Darren Isom:
And how did that shape you at an early age?
Farah Mami:
This is a very important point you're bringing about, where I feel that French identity will let you think the way you want; but it won't really hear the way you think, so at the end, you can think whatever, but your behavior-
Darren Isom:
Do it at home.
Farah Mami:
Yes, and then the behavior will have to fit in. And the big challenge I think as a kid or as a teenager in France is the shaming. It's a very, very ingrained culture and behavior of shaming.
Darren Isom:
And let's jump in there, because I think that's a great point. You talk about the shaming, particularly when you come from such a beautiful culture.
Farah Mami:
Yes.
Darren Isom:
This idea of... So, I would love for you to share, as you think through your experiences across the cultures and continents, and how you see yourself now, in what ways do you carry your Tunisian identity with you? And how does that show up in a beautiful and magnificent way?
Farah Mami:
Well, when I speak French, first of all, it's the accent.
Darren Isom:
Okay.
Farah Mami:
We have a clear accent in how we speak in French. The warmth, we are a very warm culture and community. The hospitality. Wherever I go, whether in Tunis, Paris, or even when I was living in Montreal, I loved hosting, bringing people together, introducing people from different places. We have to remember that Tunisia has always been a pond for different cultures, so this is where a lot of different identities, religions, met and exchanged, and actually built together. So, I think we carry that a lot with us wherever we go.
Darren Isom:
100%. As someone whose been to Tunisia several times now, I'm always just reminded of the warmth. I always feel a sense of welcome here. As we were flying from Morocco to Tunisia and we did the trip through Spain, as you fly the little hoop over, I was reminded that Tunisia's the good neighbor in the neighborhood, and is loved for that reason.
I want to jump a little bit to talk about... I know that you're a mother of two wonderful children who are in school right now, so we have the house to ourselves. And I want you to get to how has motherhood shaped with the way you show up in the world, and what values are most important to you as you raise your children? But before we get to that, tell me what you love about your kids. It's always fun to hear people talk about what they love about their kids.
Farah Mami:
Yes. It's a little bit biased, because we're the mother of kids.
Darren Isom:
And you're allowed, exactly.
Farah Mami:
Yes. So, first, my daughter, I love her fierceness that can tend sometimes to be stubborn. But I really love how determined and fierce she is. And when she wants something, she really fights for it. Another really amazing trait in her is her ability to comprehend things that are beyond our realm at a very young age, she's seven. And I think that will go back after to the values of motherhood because as a mother, I always believe that kids, especially young kids, are more knowledgeable than us, and that studies have shown that. So, I've always given them the space to even teach me in a way. So now she owns this very much and this is beautiful to see.
And my son is very handsome, first of all. He just smiles, he can get anything he wants.
Darren Isom:
Charm will get you far.
Farah Mami:
Exactly. His charm is just beyond this realm. And I really like his curiosity and sensitivity. He's a very curious kid, he always want to learn things. But also, learn about how people feel. So, he's very empathetic.
Darren Isom:
Oh, wow.
Farah Mami:
Yeah, he wants to make sure that everyone feel at ease, and he feels when someone is hurt, so he has a very strong empathy and sensitivity, and this is beautiful to see in a young kid.
Darren Isom:
Yeah. And so you have the fierceness of your daughter, the empathy of your son. Two skills, two assets definitely worth respecting and valuing. How do you make that happen as a parent? How do you make sure they hold onto that?
Farah Mami:
Gosh, this is the hardest job in the world, I think, to make sure that they hold onto that. Because sometimes, we try so hard to be good parents. Especially today with technology, we have access to everything, so we have no excuse to not be good parents. Our parents maybe had excuse because they didn't have the knowledge, so we have the trauma.
Darren Isom:
We'll talk about our parents later, at another point over cocktails, maybe, because our parents... It was a struggle.
Farah Mami:
Agreed. So, I think we carry that with us as adults. And not only we carry our traumas, but we do carry also the fact that now we have no excuse not to be good parents because we have access to technology, we have access to learning. So, sometimes we overstretch ourselves as parents to be perfect. And this is where the line is difficult to hold onto. Between your guilt as a parent and making sure that you give the right values or transmit them the right values while giving space for yourself. Because today, I think we are often unaware and unconscious in how too much we give to our children to also heal our own wound of not having had parents to be there for us. And this is very difficult to work on on a daily basis. The guilt is a big part.
Darren Isom:
We've navigating a lot. I don't have kids. Both my brother and my sister have kids, and seeing them navigate how to be good parents... And our parents were good, for a different generation, but question how much they were actually parenting is the question. But I think our ability to make space for them to be the individuals that they are is really powerful and meaningful.
With that, you've made some bold, courageous choices in life, not just professionally but personally, in pursuit of alignment and authenticity.
Farah Mami:
Yes.
Darren Isom:
I would love to give you space to talk about that journey, and what that's taught you about freedom, and what it takes to live a life that feels truly your own. And happiness, as well. Throw happiness in there as well.
Farah Mami:
I think this is one of the most turning point in my life. In the sense that, even before my personal life choices, I always had that urge to show up to the world with my true self, with authenticity, vulnerability. And I expected the same from others, so it was very frustrating as a teenager, but especially as an adult, a young adult and an older adult, to see that you're actually an outlier in that way. It was very frustrating to feel that I didn't belong in some way. And even though in all other aspects of my life I was belonging to the communities, but that showing up with your true self makes you always feel like you're really not belonging.
So, when I made very important personal choices in my life, it was really in line with that showing up to the world as my true self. And especially when it's soul-calling, and when you want to live a life where you're alive, for me, there is no other options.
Darren Isom:
None. Yeah, totally. And so we talk, I share all the time, growing up, my grandmother, my dad's mom, was very Catholic in her own right. Would always say that, "God's greatest gift to man was that of free will. If He wanted us to be the same, He would have made us all the same. And our gift back to God is living our lives as beautifully as possible."
Farah Mami:
Yes.
Darren Isom:
And our gift to each other is making space for others to live beautifully as well. And so you live a very beautiful life, so just share a little bit more about how that beauty came to fruition, and what things do you cherish the most in the choices that you've made?
Farah Mami:
I just want to jump back on a very important aspect that we tend to overlook. Freedom, and freedom of choice, and liberty is very costly in many other ways. I do understand that people have resistances to it most of the time. Because when you go forward with your choices, taking into consideration the collateral damages that there could be, it could literally transform your lives. And there are a lot of sacrifices that will need to be made. A lot of people will walk out of your life, and that can be very painful, especially when it's family members, when it's very close friends. We need to remember that. But the aliveness and the beauty of living life on your own terms is worth the collateral damage and the pain that you go through to actually get that free will.
Darren Isom:
I think it's also worth noting as well that you're living your life in a way that's beautiful and meaningful to you is your best contribution to society. And so I think in many ways, we're all forced, as best as we can, to live out our path, because that's what the world needs from us.
So, I want, this is beautiful and it's a great transition, to talk more professionally. So, you currently serve as the Tunisia chapter president of YPO, a space that brings together top business leaders. What does it mean to you to lead in this space? Not just as a professional, but as a Tunisian woman committed to rewriting what leadership can look like.
Farah Mami:
For me, leadership is a journey of learning to live together, especially when you're chairing an organization like YPO, where all the other members are already CEOs as well. So, it's a way to be able to know more about yourself, but know more about others, and how you can compose a new art together, in a way.
As a woman, honestly, I've been immensely surprised in Tunisia how easy it was for a woman, either as members, but also the spouse, because YPO is made in a way where you have members, but you have spouses as well, how active women were, and how reactive and to the point, and how much they deliver in that way. And it's a very interesting journey to be part of.
Darren Isom:
And I want to talk a little bit more about this whole idea of a Tunisian woman. You've come a country with a reputation of producing strong women.
Farah Mami:
Yes.
Darren Isom:
My sister studied here many years ago, studying women leadership, women's education. I think it's an amazing space where that identity as a Tunisian woman comes before you. Talk a little bit more about what does it mean to be a woman in this space, how you use your experiences, your perspective to bring people together, but also, how you use your position as a woman in this space to champion other women leaders as well.
Farah Mami:
So, yes, in YPO also, I hold a position internationally, which is in the Women Business Network. So, I'm the engagement officer of that network. And it's been a very important role for me to empower other women to really put their footprint wherever they are, and to build communities around women, to bring women forward with their ideas. Because we tend to have a little bit, I would be nice to say, of an imposter syndrome as women, so we always think that we don't deliver enough, we don't give enough. And I'm always amazed when I have the calls or the meetings with women to see how amazing ideas they bring forward, how amazing plan, and they're ready to make it happen in two minutes. And I can see that also in the YPO as an organization. You can see that, that 90% of the management of YPO is actually women.
Darren Isom:
Yeah.
Farah Mami:
So, you see how the organization is run, how it's working so well internationally? It's women-led.
Darren Isom:
Yeah.
Farah Mami:
I'm going to say that men-
Darren Isom:
That's an asset.
Farah Mami:
Yes.
Darren Isom:
Men struggle with leadership.
Farah Mami:
I would say yes. We live in a time today where I think the leadership style, we have to adjust to open up to more vulnerability, to open up to more authenticity, and to allow diversity in the sense that women have a different way of leading. They don't need as much time to be able to get to solution, because they're able to create a sense of community to the people around the table and find a common ground to work on, without aggression, without decisiveness. So, in that way, when you make people together, you get to results faster, and more productive results at the end of the day. I think this is a new way that we could look at women leadership. Because today, I feel there is also a huge confusion of what is feminism and what is women empowerment? I heard the other day, someone was saying, "Oh, you feminists, you want stay-at-home mothers to go back to work," and so forth. And this is really not the idea, because a stay-at-home mom, for me, is a source of inspiration that has no-
Darren Isom:
It's also the toughest job out there.
Farah Mami:
It is one of the toughest jobs. I think we need to find ways to nurture their knowledge. I don't feel like mothers or women in general need to be having 9:00 to 5:00 jobs, and having to go in, go out. We live in a world today of mobility, where it's much easier to work from wherever, work for the time you decide. And I think there is a lot of leverage that can be done from the stay-at-home mothers for a few hours a day, because their knowledge, their way of managing a house, a relationship with a husband, and the education of the community at the end is a great asset to learn from.
Darren Isom:
You brought up two points that I really want to spend some time talking through. So, one, you talked earlier about how women lead differently, and how they're just assets and not liabilities from a leadership perspective. I would love to hear you talk a little bit more about what that different leadership looks like, how it compares to leadership that we're seeing from non-women leaders, if you will, but also how it's something that's really needed now in the moment.
And secondly, I would love for you to talk about what shifts really need to happen in mindsets, and systems, culture, to really unlock women leaders and women leadership, both in Tunisia and beyond.
Farah Mami:
Thank you for this question. Women leadership is different in the way that women are not ashamed to say that they're wrong. They will sit down and say-
Darren Isom:
Can you say that again? That is such a small point, but it's such an important point. Can you repeat that for the people in the back?
Farah Mami:
So, women are not ashamed to say that they're wrong. They will put it forward and see whatever there is to see, learn from that. And with humility, move forward with the help of others. Because when we're wrong, it's only in relationships that we can see how we can be better; either a work relationship or a personal relationship. That's how we improve as human beings. So, I think women have that intrinsic ability to question themselves more and to open up to who they are. And I think at the end, this is really related to their intuition, because we are more connected as women to intuition if we allow it. Because in today's world, let's put it straight up, most women are not connected to their intuition. We live in a male-dominated world, where the masculine has to come out to the roof, so we are fully disconnected from our intuition. We even feel guilty-
Darren Isom:
Oh, completely.
Farah Mami:
... when we have to connect.
Darren Isom:
We had our intuition, right?
Farah Mami:
Yeah, we had. We feel guilty because it's not empowered. So, to go back to your second question, how can women leadership really flourish in today's world? It's to allow women to be connected to their intuition, to their spirituality, to their sense of wilderness that we tend to repress. We are put in such specific molds, each one of us. And if we get out of that mold, then we're crazy, then we're unstable, then we are seen as delusional. Actually, that's where the real power is. So, once you connect to that intuition and you go into that wilderness, think that's where the real woman in all of us could come out. That's where woman leadership would be freer and able to really impact on a bigger level.
Because let's be honest; today, women leadership exists, and it's been much better than it used to be before, but it's still very contained in a specific mold. That's why today, we still don't see a huge improvement in the workspace, or a huge improvement in equality in the world, because we're still containing women to a specific mold where they have to be. And I do think that this comes only and would only happen, and I really keep on stressing this, with the support of men. We won't be able to change the narrative for women if men don't support and really see how valuable this can be for them and for society.
Darren Isom:
100%. And we see all the time within the States that, from a Black American perspective, we say that the changes that need to happen within American society aren't by Black Americans, they're by white Americans, right? They're the ones that need to change, so I can see the same playing out in order for women to be more successful, it's actually male culture and men that have to change to make that happen.
I want to jump in and talk a little bit more about innovation. You've seen innovation happen in both traditional and unconventional ways, from big companies to developing startups. What do you think makes a venture truly worth building? What kinds of problems are you most drawn to help solve? Where do you get your inspiration from in that space and that world?
Farah Mami:
Yeah, this is my drive. I think one of the first projects I wanted to build 10 years ago was about NGO tracing. It was an NGO-tracing app, which basically will help you trace your donations. So for me, transparency has always been something very important. Either in the nonprofit world, but also in the for-profit world.
So, going from there, to now wanting to have more transparency within the human being, one of the real projects and innovation I'm working on right now is to build a hub and a community of startups where we can unhinge and unveil the true purpose of people, and connect them to their soul's purpose, in some ways. And in another stage, to really help them make them reality, because our souls can be completely innovative in their own way. This is what we call creativity. And I think today's world is not tooled to, I guess, make them a reality.
So, I'd like to be able to support people to access their soul's purpose through specific techniques I'm exploring with some experts on consciousness, on dreams explorations, on kinesiology tests that are working on an amazing project, it's called Unus Mundus. And with them, I would like to really work on that, because for me, this is what makes me wake up every morning, to be able to help. Specifically, you were talking about something earlier about Black American. The main focus of the hub will be for minorities, women, artists, and high-potential individuals. Why? Because I feel like those parts of the world, I would say, or the community, don't have the space to fully exist in their uniqueness. To become an entrepreneur today, you have to be working 14 hours a day, and deliver, deliver, deliver. And of course there is a lot of work in being an entrepreneur. But do we really have to live on those own terms? Is there another way? So, that's what I'm questioning. Is there another way where you can only live your dream, but also live a happy life?
Darren Isom:
I think also, it gets at the groups that you mentioned are groups that have often been neglected and overlooked, and have the most to the offer to the conversation in many ways, because of the genius that comes with being from an underserved or a neglected community. And so how do you let that genius shine?
But I do want to just jump in and have you talk a little bit about what it is it like to be pursuing such a person and a people-driven approach in a time when the world's looking for artificial things? I joke all the time at work, it's like, "I thought we decided that artificial was bad?" We're not eating artificial foods, we don't want to use artificial clothing. But artificial intelligence? We're fine with artificial intelligence? So, how do you center the human being and people and their thinking in a time where it feels like people are departing from that way of thinking and living?
Farah Mami:
Like everything in life, I think it's about balance. We talked earlier about women leadership and about how women lead differently. A big aspect in any technology you'd use is not only the balance, but also the stability. The stability that you will have, you, as a human being, so your mental stability, and the stability of the tool, so the tool doesn't actually overtake you.
So, we live in a world of AI. AI is here to stay, we cannot go against it. But we really, as human beings, have that ability to feel and intuitively create that AI doesn't have. And this is where we can find a synergy. The depth of knowledge and condensed structure, it's problem reasoning and solving abilities of AI, is an asset for human beings. Because what I would like to put forward is not that ability, it's something further that AI cannot put forward. So, the mix of the both, while still the human being being on the lead of the project, this is how I think it can go forward.
Darren Isom:
Got it. And you've already started talking about this, but I would love to hear you share a little bit more. I want to feel your excitement, I want everyone else to feel your excitement as well. What excites you most about the entrepreneurship landscape right now, especially in North Africa? You talked about those various groups that you're targeting; where are you seeing the most unexpected brilliance emerge?
Farah Mami:
Tunisia, for me, is a gem in terms of potential. We have potential in arts, which is incredible. I've seen artists do things that are breathtaking. We have potential in engineering, in technical abilities. In writing, also. So, I do think Tunisia is full of resources to be able to go out to the world. Now, it's to be able to give them the means to get out to the world.
And this is where I think more support is needed and more, I say, creative strategies can be put forward, so that you can help them flourish. Because we have to say this clearly. We've been in a very challenging time in Tunisia since the Arab Spring. We are proud of where we are I think, in some ways, but there is also a lot of discouragement. There is a lot of-
Darren Isom:
Anxiety.
Farah Mami:
... anxiety and under-valuation, because people haven't been seen or valued for their worth. And that isolation, that sense of isolation and discouragement, creates failure and creates people not having the desire to do the extra step. And actually, this is exactly when you have to do the extra step. When all the doors are closed, when you're feeling completely discouraged, when everything shows you that there is no other way, then that's where you need to go forward. And you cannot do it alone. That's why building communities around that, bringing the right support to people to be able to go the extra step, for me is the way forward on that.
Darren Isom:
And I think it speaks as well to the importance of our being able to appreciate and value the contributions that Tunisia and Tunisian culture has made to the world overall, right? And so, one of the reasons that we're here in Tunisia, besides the fact that it's an amazingly wonderful country, is that as a country, where it sits, it has such an [French 00:26:54], such an opening to the broader world. Both the continent that it's a part of, but also to Europe, to the Middle East, to Asia. That also speaks to a beautiful and wonderful narrative in the world of culture, and arts, and all of this.
And so you've brought up this whole creative economy and culture. How do you see culture and arts playing a role in driving entrepreneurship, in driving all the things that you hope to achieve?
Farah Mami:
If you look back also again to the Arab Spring, it's been rooted in technology and in art. It's been people really sending strong messages, and this is a form of art, in a way. So, that happened in the political sphere. I do believe that today, with entrepreneurship, the same narrative, the same way can be done. How we can revolutionize entrepreneurship in Tunisia with bold statements and arts, and really bring that inspiration for people to go forward and be able to show that potential to the world.
Darren Isom:
I want to jump in and talk a little bit about, we mentioned earlier, you split your time between Tunis and Paris, holding space in two very different cultural landscapes. How has moving between those places influenced how you think about your identity, belonging, and the future you want to help shape here in Tunisia? How do you balance Paris in all of this?
Farah Mami:
I've been also... I'm French. I have to say, I've always resisted putting this forward as French, because I didn't feel like I belonged, in some ways. And as a Tunisian also, I feel that there is a lot of the same feeling from a lot of my peers in France. And that inside of me brings a feeling of injustice that I want to help solve. France wasn't at all in my lens when I was looking at developing projects. Actually, I was looking more at North America and the Middle East, where I had people who would understand further-
Darren Isom:
We appreciate that, thank you.
Farah Mami:
... further the way of thinking. But as I looked closely, you also have to look where you have the biggest communities that will need that help. And I think in France, when I see Tunisians or friends from Tunisian origins, or Moroccan or Algerian origins, that are quite isolated, not understood, trying to assimilate them or put them in in a way that is quite hypocritical, I would say, that I believe that there is a lot of work to do also in France from that aspect. So, I'm looking now at investigating further how this can be done in France, as there is a real need for real change and real justice for people.
Darren Isom:
I think it's also interesting as well to think about how do you make those changes or investigate that with a Tunisian perspective? And so how do you use Tunisian values, Tunisian grounding as the answer for all these things?
Farah Mami:
Yes.
Darren Isom:
It completely changes. It's not just adding something to, it's completely unlearning the things that you've normalized as well.
Farah Mami:
Yes. I think Tunisia has been like a leader in the Middle East. We were also a leader for women empowerment, for women vote, for women doctors, for-
Darren Isom:
All the things.
Farah Mami:
All of this, we've been pioneers in a lot of different fields. Recently, we've been pioneers also with the first unicorn of Africa in AI. So, we've been pioneers in a lot of different fields, so how we can use that to bring about change for Tunisians and alike in other spaces, I think this is our edge. Because of our history, because of our heritage of being at the crossroad, and being able to infuse in ourselves the best of each heritage and carry that forward in our journeys. The empowerment, the justice, the skills, also the technical skills, I think this is what I would like to infuse from Tunisian culture as I go forward in this project.
Darren Isom:
It's all a beautiful asset. So, just a few more questions to close this out. When you think about the next generation of women, your children, your daughter, young founders, future leaders, what do you hope they take away from your journey?
Farah Mami:
This is a tough question.
Darren Isom:
I know. It makes you feel old as well, right? But yeah, I know.
Farah Mami:
Yeah, I think that the journey is to not be afraid to show up as your true self. That we create our own hell, in a way. But to learn to remove that and let the fear outside of us to move forwards. All of that is just perceptions. At the end, also getting inspired in a way by men and their abilities to be so confident with sometime very little. I think we have a lot to learn from that as women. So, remove the imposter syndrome and try to work with the hell, because it's not easy. It's not easy at all to move forward as a woman, especially single women or single mothers. To actually be free in your life as a woman is really difficult. And that your footprint, whatever you're going to do, is going to inspire another woman. It's going to inspire another son also, another man to raise his daughter differently, to treat his sister differently. So, our journeys, as individual they are, have a collective impact.
Darren Isom:
Yeah. And you mentioned just earlier that we can be each others' hell, [French 00:31:40]. I think as we think about this idea of community practice and being supportive of each other, I mentioned in an earlier podcast many seasons ago that within Black community, while we understand that we can be each others' hell, we also understand we can be each others' heaven.
Farah Mami:
Yes.
Darren Isom:
And how do we create that space? And so with that as a closing question, I would love for you just to share a few things. One, what brings you the most joy right now? And also, as you think about the heaven and the world that you're trying to build, what excites you the most? Where are you most excited to chip in, to build, to create?
Farah Mami:
So, what brings me the most joy today is love. Honestly, this is what keeps me alive I would say every day. If I didn't have love in my life, it wouldn't make much sense. So, I think love is the most important asset I have.
And what I would like to infuse in the heaven is more love. Actually, to take from that love and how that love help me heal the hell I put myself in. Because the hell are others, but also when you-
Darren Isom:
We can be each others' hell.
Farah Mami:
Yeah, when you go forward after that, you become your own hell. You don't even need others for the hell because you create your own blurriness of reality. Bring more love into the world. And love with force, also. I think it's important to provide people with safe spaces because giving love in a space where... Creating that space where people feel protected and safe, and to be able to share love, to be able to express their true self, think that, for me, would be heaven.
Darren Isom:
What a beautiful way to close the conversation. So, we started with justice, and we end it with justice in the form of love.
Farah Mami:
Yes.
Darren Isom:
So, thank you so much for your time.
Farah Mami:
Thank you.
Darren Isom:
And look forward to seeing where you go with all the great work. And thanks again for having us here.
Farah Mami:
Thank you for coming to Tunis, and closing your journey with us.
Darren Isom:
My pleasure.
Farah Mami:
It's a pleasure to host you. And I really hope to see you soon.
Darren Isom:
Very soon. Thanks a bunch.
Farah Mami:
Thank you.
Darren Isom:
Christmas break freshman year at Howard, I came home to New Orleans with a head full of new ideas and fresh decoration. I was now vegetarian. My mother had just served me a perfect bowl of gumbo, with andouille sausage, chicken, crab, and shrimp, as one does. When I told her, she quietly pulled the bowl away. I didn't notice the tears at first. They were soft, almost apologetic, like her question that followed. "Would a grilled cheese sandwich do?" Years later, I learned her sadness had little to do with the gumbo. In New Orleans, food is more than food. It's love, community, identity. She wasn't mourning the meal, she was afraid I was rejecting our culture, trying to distance myself from where I came from. I wasn't. I was just trying to be cool. By the time I flew back to D.C., I was eating meat again. I've been eating meat ever since.
Two years later, I came home from Paris during a break from my year abroad, and I told my mother I was having a crisis of faith. In New Orleans, this kind of thing is expected. I had been raised religiously, in church every Sunday from birth to 16, but had started to wonder if the God I'd been praying to all those years was really listening. My mother didn't flinch, she barely looked up. "Well," she said. "I'm sure God still believes in you." Then she added, "Now get dressed for church." In our family, belief and attendance weren't the same thing. Church was as much about presence alongside family and community as it was about prayer. There were plenty of atheists and agnostics in the pews, some of my brothers included, who never missed a Sunday.
Three years later, I came home from grad school and told her I was gay. She met my eyes with love and a kind of quiet resolve. Maybe even relief, as if she'd known and was glad I finally did, too. "You're not the only one," she said. She reminded me to visit my grandma Lois and left the room. Years later I asked, of all the things I'd shared, why was the vegetarian thing the only one that brought her to tears? "Your father and I have only ever wanted for you to be happy," she said. "And I just couldn't see a path to happiness as a vegetarian. It made me sad for you." Later, my father explained that it had nothing to do with the meat. She wasn't reacting to what I was no longer eating. She was reacting to what she thought I might be turning away from: the culture, the joy, the belonging.
That kind of love, the one that clings not to control but to connection, creates space for transformation. My mother didn't need me to stay the same. She needed me to see that I was becoming something whole and happy, anchored. In my family, as children we were all close; siblings just a room or two over, cousins, grandparents, aunts and uncles all within a stone's throw. We were scattered across Carrollton, Claiborne, and St. Charles Avenues, with a few in farther off places like Gentilly, like Bullard, up river and down bayou.
Then we grew up, went off to schools in far away states, settled in shiny new cities. Found good jobs, built new families, made new lives, just as we were expected to do. And now the people we once saw every day, we see once a year, maybe, for weddings or funerals. In families like ours, distance can seem like forgetting, even when it's not. The joy, the belonging, the stories we share thankfully stick with you. Still, my mother often ends our calls with a gentle nudge. "When was the last time you spoke to," inserting a name here. "You should call. They'd love to hear from you." When we reach out, we don't just reconnected, we exchange. They want to hear what we're becoming and we learn from what they've become, too.
That's what stayed with me most in my conversation with Farah. Not just her clarity about who she is, but her commitment to living fully. "To live a life where you are alive," she said. "For me, there is no other option." Farah reminded me that striving to love your full self isn't easy, but it's how we come alive. When you're lucky, you find yourself surrounded by people who don't just accept who you're becoming, they honor it. They see your growth not as a risk, but as a kind of offering. A light you shine, not just for yourself, but for all of us.
Audre Lorde wrote, "If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive." I think my mother understood that. Maybe not in those words, but in the way she parented. She didn't need to define me, she made room for me to do it myself. It was space to grow, knowing I was anchored in a beautiful beginning.
Farah also said, "Your footprint will inspire another woman, another son, another brother." And I've come to believe that's true. When we live honestly, not just for ourselves but out loud, with clarity, we give others permission to do the same. Our choices echo, they make space. Not just for who we are, but for who might be watching, quietly, wondering if it's safe to be fully seen. My mother didn't always understand where I was going, but she believed I was becoming exactly who I was meant to be. That belief gave me more than permission, it gave me direction. Home wasn't a cage, it was a stage. And the thing about a stage, it's there to help you shine, to celebrate you, and the legacy you're living into. A beautiful reflection of where you've been and our path forward together.
Once again, we put some music with the magic, collecting the theme songs from our season's guests and collaborators to create a Spotify playlist for our listeners to enjoy. Find it on Spotify under Dreaming in Color: The Continent.
Thanks for listening to Dreaming in Color. A special shout-out to all the folks who make the magic happen. From Africa InSight Communications, our wonderful producers, Mudzithe Phiri and Tom Kirkwood, production coordinator Goddec Orimba, audiovisual editor Omamo Gikho, graphic designer Ernest Chikuni, and the amazing production crews on the ground in each country.
A huge shout-out to my Bridgespan production colleagues Cora Daniels, my ever-brilliant partner in good trouble, and Elisabeth Makumbi, my Joburg-based season cohost. And of course, our fabulous creative director, Ami Diané. What a squad, y'all. Be sure to rate, subscribe, and review wherever you listen to podcasts. Catch you next time.
